Why Paper Mario Changed

Why Paper Mario Changed

Paper Mario, oh why and how did you take a
darker turn for the worse… Fans of the community threaten, chastise and
hate each other over Super, Sticker Star and Color Splash. Fans go to great lengths to explain why the
older games are appreciated while others claim it’s nostalgia clouds, nothing more and
that they weren’t that good. But where did it all start and why? Most fans believe Miyamoto was the cause of
this and that’s partly true. What most fans don’t know is there’s a
lot more under the hood than just Miyamoto following his simplification philosophies. One of my fans reached out to me on Youtube
and made a huge ass essay, I took the time to read it and he explained and cited various
sources that clear up exactly why Paper Mario changed. I wish I could shout you out bro, but you
told me to keep you anonymous so I’ll respect that but I seriously thank you for laying
knowledge and resources on to me. And what do we do with knowledge and resources? Share and spread them to the public because
ignorance and unknowingness can only go so far. These interviews, background info, and more
will clear up why Paper Mario changed after The Thousand-Year Door. And the format I’m gonna go down is very
similar to my fans’ message because plenty of his two-cents he gave I agreed with. Check the sources as well in the description
to see for yourself. Plus, I suggest you use subtitles for this
video as well. Firstly, let’s talk about Shigeru Miyamoto
briefly, father to Mario, highly respected game developer, not so much by the Paper Mario
community. He’s been getting flack because he did ask
for the cast during Sticker Star to be of just the main Super Mario cast. While it is partly true Miyamoto is to blame
here, it’s not entirely on him, he’s not even the biggest reason. There two game developers behind Paper Mario
that are key to know of. One is Ryota Kawade and the other Kensuke
Tanabe. Ryota Kawade’s background info on the Mario
wiki states he’s a game designer at Intelligent System, the company who makes the Paper Mario
games, and he was the chief director of Paper Mario on the Nintendo 64, Paper Mario: The
Thousand-Year Door, and Super Paper Mario. The Chief Director of the original Paper Marios,
and directors usually play a huge factor in involvement and obviously direction of a game
and/or franchise. It’s because of this guy we have the first
three Paper Marios, with the characters, the stories, the designs, the worlds and everything. We really owe Kawade a huge thank you for
the original Paper Mario games. His most recent involvement is Code Name:
S.T.E.A.M, right now he’s working on a Fire Emblem trading card game full time, and in
Sticker Star, he was only given Special Thanks. Now this was a big problem as his involvement
in Sticker Star was minimal, especially compared to the previous 3 Paper Mario titles. Kensuke Tanabe is known as a supervisor on
the Thousand-Year Door, which he just overlooks stuff going on, and was a producer for Super
Paper Mario, Paper Mario Sticker Star, and Paper Mario Color Splash and Metroid fans
are gonna loathe this if they don’t know. Or do already, I don’t know. Kensuke Tanabe is the same guy who produced
Metroid Prime: Federation Force. But this is a Paper Mario video, not Metroid. His involvement in Paper Mario usually let
him make more decisions and overlook some ideas and possibilities in the series. Keep in mind Kawade’s position as well as
Tanabe’s. Remember, Kawade chief directed the first
3 Paper Marios and barely took part in Sticker Star while Tanabe supervised The Thousand-Year
Door and produced Super, Sticker Star and Color Splash. Their involvements, again, are key to this
explanation towards the drastic change Paper Mario took. As you can see, the only time both these guys
worked on a Paper Mario game together through some extensive length is Super Paper Mario,
which is where this whole Paper Mario debacle started. The game was criticized for going the same
2D platforming approach Super Mario Bros. is well known for. Why did they go for such a shift in terms
of gameplay? This answer dates back over 10 years ago to
an interview by Nintendo of Europe from a May issue of the Nintendo Power magazine,
found on NeoGAF. It’s not the full interview, bear in mind,
but it gives enough of an idea as to why Super Paper Mario came as to how it is. Ryota Kawade decided after The Thousand-Year
Door, he wanted to make something different, something surprising and brand new to add
to the Paper Mario concept. Wait, hold on those pitchforks for a second… He came up with some plans to make the game
shift between 2D and 3D and because traditional Mario-style battle worked better in the game
to effectively utilize dimension-swapping, they opted for this gameplay style. Kensuke Tanabe responded as he saw eye to
eye with Ryota Kawade and mentioned his thought of an action/adventure game suiting this title
more, despite him asking to keep the RPG-like story. It was a process of trial and error, the team
dealt with some troubles and obstacles during development and it was Kawade answering most
of these questions. He also says he always made a conscious effort
to add personality, good writing, atmosphere and dialogue; mostly how to entertain and
surprise the player. And quick fun fact, they were asked about
a Paper Mario stage in Super Smash Bros. Brawl being possible upon consulting Masahiro Sakurai,
which they were unable to do and I personally suspect that’s how we got the Paper Mario
stage for Super Smash Bros. for 3DS. But the last thing to go over in this interview,
Kawade and Tanabe were asked about Paper Mario’s Future and a Paper Mario game on the DS. Kawade answered with wanting to make something
that can surprise people. He couldn’t anticipate Paper Mario’s direction
nor whether or not a handheld Paper Mario game would come to pass, but he’d like to
make one if him and the rest of the staff could make use of the DS’s capabilities. Tanabe on the other hand answered, “I think
that with Super Paper Mario we accomplished to make a great game that fits well into the
Paper Mario universe. If we come up with another unique and influential
idea, better than the feature of switching between 2D and 3D dimensions, then we may
start to create a new Paper Mario title, however, we are not working on anything concrete at
this point in time.” The fan who messaged me searched up more throughout
Mario wikis and gaming sites and such to try and find the full interview. This brief summary on the Super Mario Wiki
may come in handy. “After wrapping up development of Paper Mario:
The Thousand Year Door, director Ryota Kawade wanted to make “other type of games” using
the Paper Mario series. Kawade brainstormed many ideas for a new Paper
Mario game that would retain the series’ humor, puzzles and leveling system while featuring
a new twist, eventually settling on the concept of switching between 2D and 3D (an idea which
came to him during a train ride, where Kawade was thinking about the Bowser platforming
segments in The Thousand Year Door while looking at the other end of the train. The idea was presented to Nintendo, which
suggested that an action-adventure game would best demonstrate the concept. The developers and Nintendo considered that
retaining the leveling system was important, as it would allow less dedicated players to
still enjoy the game and make it stand out from traditional Mario games. The graphics and character design were deliberately
designed to be surreal and unusual to invoke the idea of “a Mario world that’s not really
a Mario world” and because the idea “to show something that the player has never seen before”
was considered a pillar of Paper Mario.” So Kawade wanted to try something new with
Super Paper Mario and it’s clear as the sun in the sky what he was trying to do. He didn’t want the RPG-like system removed
entirely, so really me and my fan think they referred to Kensuke Tanabe since he suggested
the game should be an action adventure platformer, not Nintendo. It seemed Kawade was unsure of Paper Mario’s
direction and whether or not they’d continue with Super Paper Mario’s gameplay style,
return to the RPG-battle like mechanics and others, or use a different style altogether,
but Tanabe stated they’d just look for a new style. We got this platformer-RPG hybrid, I did not
have much involvement online at the time, and the community apparently went rabid. People were so split on Super Paper Mario. It definitely caused a lot of controversy
and there was a lot to talk about. If you asked me, I believe Super still qualifies
as a Paper Mario mainly because, it still has the core elements most people cherish
and desire from a Paper Mario game. It has unique characters, it has unique locations
and designs for both characters and worlds, albeit some are lazy and bland. It has a story, it has emotion, good writing,
and a big world with various connecting paths inside it. Even gameplay wise, it had half of what the
first 2 Paper Mario games had. My main reason for comparing Super Paper Mario
with TTYD and PM64 is because even if it didn’t exactly play like Paper Mario, it still felt
like Paper Mario to its core. You could tell the spirit, the creativity,
the passion of Paper Mario is there, and that’s why it’s more of a Paper Mario than Color
Splash is in my eyes, even if both games have similar topics and matters to discuss. But I might get into that in another video,
also depending on whether you guys would like that or not. But that explains why Super Paper Mario changed
the Paper Mario series. But some of guys are thinking, well what about
Sticker Star? Before I touch on that, let’s discuss the
common misconception that Shigeru Miyamoto is the one that ruined Paper Mario. It’s no secret Miyamoto is for some reason
against original characters and a lack of story and design. But why? What makes a simplified game much more appealing
to him? Is he lazy or something? He was interviewed on wired.com after Super
Paper Mario came out but this was around the time Super Mario Galaxy 2 was revealed at
E3 2 years later. He was asked on why Galaxy 2 didn’t have
a deep storyline unlike Super Mario Galaxy. Miyamoto explains he doesn’t feel Mario
games should come with a heavy, deep, over-arching story. He feels Zelda should have those deep stories
but Mario shouldn’t. He believes Mario games are about a bright
and fun experience and you don’t need complicated settings with characters with backstories
weighing down the bright and light-hearted feel of the game. A villain you fight to beat and find out they’re
not that bad is enough of a story for a fun experience in his eyes, which is a recurring
theme in Mario games. Donkey Kong in the original arcade game is
an example as he was just misunderstood and not really a bad guy. But here’s an interesting bit. The assistant director of Super Mario 64,
director of Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy AND the producer for Super Mario
Odyssey, Yoshiaki Koizumi, disagrees with Miyamoto’s beliefs on storytelling. Miyamoto states Koizumi’s the type of person
who wants to add more story elements in a Mario game. That’s how we got Rosalina’s backstory
and the subtle narrative in Super Mario Galaxy. But Miyamoto was able to stop him with Galaxy
2’s storyline. Koizumi was interviewed by wired.com as well
back in 2007 and explained he likes to try and add story elements in Mario and Zelda
games, even if Miyamoto says to keep them out. And this isn’t the only time Miyamoto tried
to take down story in Mario games either. He even told the team working on New Super
Mario Bros. Wii, to just throw a cake and let Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings kidnap Peach
at the beginning of the game and nothing more. There’s another link to a Koizumi interview
in that Miyamoto interview on wired.com and like I said, check the description for all
these citations and information to see for yourself. Growing up in college, Koizumi wanted to be
a film director and getting the opportunity to work at Nintendo in college gave him a
goal, which was having a character, in a certain kind of world, having him go through a series
of actions to accomplish something, and creating a dramatic tension throughout that. I won’t go too into detail, that’s something
I can leave you guys to read but let’s be clear, they both have different styles and
methods creating a game and its story. One style is not wrong. Now I wanna give my two-cents on this matter. In a few ways, I somewhat see what Miyamoto
is trying to say. With Mario, you don’t necessarily need a
concrete story to enjoy his games as long as the game itself plays and feels fun and
great. But I seriously have to disagree with pushing
that philosophy onto his workers and games a lot, especially during the Wii U and 3DS
era and even more so to the Paper Mario series. With 3D and 2D Mario games, stories aren’t
as crucial, but when they’re added, they provide a different angle, a different perspective
on the whole game. They add more influence and emotion to the
game and the player. It can push a player to play the game even
more and learn to love and respect it more when it has character, charm and personality
than the game just have a simple story with various, random worlds and levels. That’s usually why most games nowadays try
to go for that story, those extra slice of life moments, adding those layers to make
the game feel more special and more in depth, and even then, players don’t understand
the first time. It can take years to understand that depth
and when it’s finally shined, that makes the game all the more appreciated and loved. Take this whole Peach and Bowser forced marriage
in Super Mario Odyssey and how each world ties into that wedding and the characters
as well. That just makes the game itself feel more
connected with the characters, the worlds and the Super Mario franchise. It makes a video game feel like one massive
continuative world and story. It’s something you don’t even have to
add, but when it is, not only is it more appreciated and noticeable, it makes the universe of that
game feel a lot more alive. You can feel the emotion, you can feel the
happiness, the sadness, you can feel these games, these characters, these worlds, hold
more value, more human-like nature and more structure than being one-dimensional. Not only that, but they never weighed down
the experience. Rosalina’s backstory is sad, yeah, but it
never interfered with the gameplay and overall story itself, especially since it was an optional
feature you could look into. Super Mario Galaxy felt epic and dramatic,
but still felt fun and exciting. The narrative given is that extra oomph that
gives Galaxy the praise and love it still does today. This is why I’m hyped that Yoshiaki Koizumi
seems to be taking a huge part in developing Super Mario Odyssey, because it really does
seem like we’re getting that extra narrative, a bit more story, and especially more character
and expression in Super Mario Odyssey, even if he’s not really directing it. But with Paper Mario, it’s a lot less forgiving
because those games are well-known for their story and characters. Not just because of the fact they were RPGs
from the beginning, but Paper Mario as a whole, even in Super is well-known for its characters,
its personalities, its writing, its worlds and world building, its events, its stories,
not just the gameplay. So, to nerf the Paper Mario series to fall
in line with Super Mario 3D Land and Super Mario 3D World as well as the New Super Mario
Bros. games in terms of simplicity and lack of originality and creativity, is why fans
do not like Sticker Star and Color Splash, at least not nearly as much as the previous
3 titles, especially when that’s not what Paper Mario was to begin with. That’s why I respect Yoshiaki Koizumi in
the aspect that he challenged Miyamoto’s beliefs and gave us a better Mario game than
what would’ve been, and we might be getting that in Super Mario Odyssey. I feel it’s because of Miyamoto’s beliefs
it also affected other franchises like Star Fox getting the same story the 3rd time in
Star Fox Zero. But that kinda dragged on a lot longer than
I hoped. Guess that gives more light on both developers
and some Mario games, including Odyssey so I might break that part into its own video. Sorry for kind of going off track. Moving on, Paper Mario Sticker Star. The elephant in the room, the black sheep
of Paper Mario. Starting development in 2009, roughly 90%
of the development staff were newcomers to the Paper Mario series while a couple veterans
worked on the project. Game came onto 3DS, hoping to make use of
the 3DS’s stereoscopic 3D. Naohiko Aoyama directed it and art directed
the first Paper Mario, but wasn’t as involved in the sequels until Sticker Star. And with the interview ending with hope of
finding the new style, you may be thinking they screwed up from the get go. But no, they got the right idea initially,
as for one the game started as an RPG and don’t forget, this was the first time when
Kawade didn’t work on a Paper Mario game. Some of you may remember there were hints
of a different Paper Mario in there. Like Mario had a Chain Chomp partner, he used
it to break things, the art style was a lot more detailed and reminiscent of the first
Paper Mario, there was a place where giant cards lied around, there was a King Mole boss
fight, there clearly was inspiration from the original Paper Mario. This game did show promise. But when Miyamoto checked the demo build,
he was reportedly unimpressed, dismissing it as “just a port of the GC version.” He then requested a big change to be made
and that’s where shit turned hotter and smellier. In an Iwata Asks Interview, details regarding
Sticker Star’s development were given, although it’s not fully explained. It does, however, give insight on Sticker
Star and what Modern Day Paper Mario is, answering plenty of relevant questions today. Stickers were an idea brainstormed and originally
gonna be for puzzle-solving, but were decided to be expanded in the full game. Miyamoto asked to only use characters from
the Super Mario world. But wait, it only gets worse, Tanabe did a
survey, on Club Nintendo when that was thing, and not even one percent liked the story. Tanabe and his team eventually decided to
throw away the RPG elements altogether, aka, the partners, the levelling up, experience
point based system with progression, etc. in favor of the sticker/card mechanic most
have come to dislike. Tanabe was even thinking for a long time on
how he wanted to get rid of the RPG experience points all because of Freshly-Picked Tingle’s
Rosy Rupeeland, some Zelda spinoff title that only released in Japan and Europe, which is
also one of the reasons why they decided to go with stickers. But something tells me that that survey regarding
the story didn’t go that far with many participants, because you hear from lots of Paper Mario
fans globally, whether they like it or not, it’s story was good. It’s the best-sold Paper Mario game anyways. In addition, he also told the team to focus
on the “paper” aspect of the visuals as he does mentions how this is the furthest they’ve
taken the concept of paper in the series, as opposed to the paper-thin 2D art style
of the previous games. Even though Miyamoto was against the heavy
story and restricted development to using pre-established Mario characters only, he
didn’t take much part in the development and even less so with Color Splash because
he mostly went hands on with games made by the Nintendo EAD Team. The gameplay wasn’t touched on him either
so it didn’t get panned. Again, Miyamoto never specifically said “only
use Toads as NPCs” or anything. He said only to use pre-established Mario
characters, which the team obviously missed a massive chunk of. But the developers were afraid to challenge
his beliefs, so they took everything he said at face value. Some of you guys might think I hate Miyamoto,
but it’s gonna take more than that for me to be petty towards Miyamoto. He made one of my favorite video game characters
of all time, but even if he was hindrance, they shouldn’t have to rely on his direction. With all these decisions they’ve made, you
think they would realize by then that these ideas wouldn’t go well the fans but nope. The game ended up becoming a mediocre experience
for Paper Mario fans. To make matters worse, director and writer
of Paper Mario Sticker Star and Color Splash, Taro Kudo, stated that they were gonna make
this game the new standard for future Paper Mario games, and clearly, they’ve stuck
to that. And that explains Sticker Star. Now what about Color Splash? I’ve talked about Color Splash to near death
last year, and I’m gonna try and not beat a dead horse, but there’s still info worth
noticing and finding. And before I go into it, remember, Ryota Kawade,
guy who directed the first 3 Paper Mario games, was barely, if at all contributing to Sticker
Star, is nowhere to be found in Color Splash. For one thing, I wanna talk about Risa Tabata. Now what does she have to do with Paper Mario? To be honest, almost nothing. Color Splash was the first Paper Mario game
she worked on and she had no prior knowledge towards previous entries or its history. When she was interviewed by GameXplain last
summer for Color Splash, she was not the right person to answer the questions when she was
asked, and it’s not only from just GX’s interview. For instance, “we can’t have two Mario
RPGS” response leaving plenty of fans concerned and worried, especially when Paper Mario came
first. She was not in the right position to answer
those questions with no background knowledge, and not only that, she never mentioned Miyamoto
when it came to the characters in the game. To be honest, I feel guilty and sorry for
her because she was not the right choice for being questioned and all the hate that got
thrown at her and I was well apart of that. I was in the wrong and ignorant, just as many
other fans were, our anger and worries got slung into hatred towards someone there just
to cover the game and it was wrong as hell. I’m humbly sorry for acting like I did a
year ago, especially now that I’m over it, but also, she was the one who teased remakes
for the Thousand-Year door. I wouldn’t get my hopes up over that if
she didn’t have any prior knowledge and since the team at Intelligent Systems is mostly
not the same ones from the first 3 Paper Marios. And when Color Splash came out, even though
the game was fairly received to be favorable, the game bombed hard. You don’t even have to factor it was on
a dead console, you know how people reacted to this game and how similar it was to Sticker
Star. It was an improvement, but not a direction
they should’ve went on to begin with. And let’s discuss one more interview that’s
short with Kensuke Tanabe, two months after Color Splash released regarding the lack of
original characters, Paper Mario’s direction and more. And this really highlights that not only did
Tanabe and the team fail to learn from the backlash and criticism Sticker Star got and
even Color Splash’s, but how ignorant Tanabe actually is. The idea for painting the world came from
the director of Color Splash, Ikuno, his kids coloring and decided to do that for the next
game. Even the art style was studied through various
textures and types of paper in order to capture that sense, which I like the art style it’s
magnificent to look at, but looking back on the original 3, especially the Thousand-Year
Door, I’d like to see the original style return slightly more mainly because Paper
Mario’s art style was told like a story and had a charm to it, not so the world itself
is actually Paper. It was an aesthetic, not a core element. Again, I’m not bashing on the art style,
but the black outlines make the world feel more natural and alive than cardboard cutouts
and paper mache. Tanabe stated they continued with the trend
of ditching the RPG-like system and to make Color Splash and Action Adventure game with
puzzle elements at its core. He says the paint hammers that increase your
paint supply is you levelling which I kinda call bullshit because not only is that cheap,
but also me and various other players didn’t find any trouble whatsoever filling your paint
or even running out, AND if they drop outside of battle, it’s not really experience. It’s about as novel as coins are. They came through various control mistakes
making the UI and combat system and ultimately made a system where you had to carefully select
your card and figure out how to battle, even if it was frustrating. That’s one problem I had with Color Splash. There was an advanced setting but even if
that made it slightly less tedious, it was tedious all the same. Battling and using cards especially still
felt like a chore. To add insult to injury, Tanabe considered
the core fanbase to be of 7-10-year-old fans, which excuse my tongue, is an absolute complete
load of fucking bullshit. Consider this back when the Wii U was barely
relevant and how long Nintendo has had its fans. Do you know exactly what kind of people bought
a Wii U? Do you know how many Nintendo fans are in
their teen years, and are adolescents, and are adults? Don’t even count the Paper Mario fans, I’m
counting Nintendo fans, especially now. You’re ignoring over 60% of your other demographic
and only focusing on kids. The fans who were loyal and still enjoy your
products to this day, the hardcore Nintendo fans, and you’re ignoring them, the fans
of the franchise you’re making and only focusing on the casual fans, which was a common
problem among the Wii U library. With how Splatoon, Mario Kart and Smash appealed
to more than just a casual crowd, they became the best sellers on the Wii U and Color Splash
was one of the last games to come out on the system. You’d think they’d learn from those games,
that they’d think beyond young children. Y’know, over 60% of the rest of its fandom. Not everyone likes Mario, I know, but if you’re
just focusing on the crowd that’s younger than tweens, that’s a pretty low number,
especially compared to the vast majority of not just Mario fans, but Nintendo fans. You want these games to appeal not just Mario
fans, but other fans of various ages as well. It’s games like the Thousand Year Door,
Breath of the Wild, ARMS, Splatoon, Metroid Prime, Star Fox Assault and more, that appeal
to more than just a casual crowd that almost anyone can love, respect and cherish together. You want fucking proof adults play and love
Paper Mario, especially the older ones? My best friend, his username is Afanda, he’s
19, lost interest in Mario since 3D World, borderline has no interest in Nintendo whatsoever
other than ARMS and some engineering and design choices behind the Switch. I bring my GameCube over to his house nowadays
and with another best friend, Antasma1, we’re all 19, we play GameCube games together. We showed him The Thousand-Year Door, got
through the prologue. Next time we hangout, first thing he wanted
to do was play it. Finished Chapter 1, took a break, and he wanted
to play it again. You know how exhausted we were that day? We finished Chapter 1 and 2 in one day, over
8 hours of The Thousand-Year Door, and we finished around 3 in the morning. My god I’m not gonna live that down because
that may be one of my favorite hangouts with my 2 best friends. He loves the absolute hell out of the Thousand
Year Door and it’s so fun watching him play this past summer. Unfortunately, college is putting that playthrough
on hold, but Afanda! Come in here and tell these people I speak
the truth! A non-Nintendo fan, tried a Paper Mario game
at an adolescent age and loves it. Look at the fandom itself, throughout various
websites and forums and other sources do teens and adults play, review, critique and spread
these games to everyone. Thankfully, the Switch’s marketing displays
the overall company is paying attention and every commercial you almost don’t see kids. You often see teenagers, college kids, adolescents,
adults, anyone of any age play these games. I get random people in my classes to play
and enjoy Mario Kart, ARMS, Sonic Mania and more I bet down the line at college. Even my professors take interest and it is
incredible. Don’t just settle some little kids. Go for the big picture, notice the rest of
your fans! But back to more pressing matters, Tanabe
continues to stay true at face value to Miyamoto’s beliefs with characters, and only use Toads
as well. Tanabe usually likes to prioritize how he
can build and create new systems, new methods and new elements and doesn’t consider companions,
past characters, past battle systems, etc. Tanabe thinks Paper Mario was about innovation
when it was far from it. Really, anything that seems Miyamoto-influenced
seems to really be Tanabe as he’s kind of this fill-in for him as he is one of the big
3 main guys at Nintendo SPD, who Miyamoto oversees, he’s been single-handedly making
these changes to the series since Super Paper Mario. There are other producers, yes, but in terms
of the changes here, they’re irrelevant and come from the Intelligent Systems side. Tanabe’s usually the one credited since
he’s under Nintendo unlike the others. Clearly, he’s completely out of touch with
the fans of the series and is not the person to leave in charge, so to all the people who
believe Miyamoto was the red flag to Paper Mario or Risa Tabata, no, from the evidence
here, it was Kensuke Tanabe. I think what sucks more is there is a real
Paper Mario game under Color Splash and under Intelligent Systems. Through those restrictions, the “innovation,”
the different paths taken, and good writing and music, there is a Paper Mario game millions
of fans want that are stuck and writhing in agony. It’s trying to break out of its prison but
is continually weighed down and shackled, it’s infuriating. You could tell from the writing in the game,
some jokes, some ideas in Color Splash could work in a RPG Paper Mario most of us want. I’m sure some developers at Intelligent
Systems feel the same way. The concept art even shows this. Duplighosts returning, the larger variety
in enemies and characters, more Toad differentiation, new enemies, and you can clearly see there’s
talent as shown from Color Splash’s music and writing. But for some reason, Tanabe doesn’t want
them to go full throttle and rejected those under his radar. Now, I highly disagree with how Tanabe seems
to do things for Paper Mario nowadays. I don’t necessarily hate him, I don’t
even know him, but dude, please, listen to the people that want the best out of the series
and love it so. Don’t be so stubborn and take criticism
from more than just Mario’s creator. He’s impacted the gaming industry, yes,
he’s a big and important figure that should be respected, hell maybe he wants to be like
him, but do not cower and be afraid to give your ideas and see others’ or challenge
Miyamoto’s beliefs, especially when they go against what millions loved coming from
the series they admire. Yoshiaki Koizumi did, look what happened. We got a fantastic Mario game on the Wii,
and we might be getting the best one on the Switch as well because of it. This could be a case of miscommunication because
Sticker Star’s development started out as an RPG and he said that was fine. It was when Miyamoto objected he pushed the
boundaries and took what he said to the fullest. I have a feeling there must have been some
miscommunication between him and Miyamoto. What’s laughable is after those changes,
Miyamoto thought the game was boring after the team removed the cool and interesting
things they implemented up until that point. Why not keep it as interesting as you originally
did then? Why continue to enforce that “boring”
game even in the next one? As accurate as this adds up, there may be
some things wrong here or some things I and my fan didn’t pick up on so this may not
be 100% accurate. Either Miyamoto’s to blame or Tanabe is
up for debate but I really think it’s Tanabe. In reality, Miyamoto’s not the whole blame
here. That’s misconstrued, Tanabe has involvement
in this as well, whereas Risa Tabata had none up until that interview. Ryota Kawade left after Super, the guy who
direct and gave us the first 3, the current producer is miscommunicating among his idol
and fanbase, the development team is inconsistent, no one seems to challenge Miyamoto’s simplistic
ideals and most of all, no one is thinking to look at the gamers and fans who love the
series and want it to succeed and reach a bigger audience. Imagine what it would’ve been if Sticker
Star’s build was never shown at that E3. Ever since it was released, Paper Mario’s
identity and direction is practically gone and god knows where the series is gonna go
now. The only reason it got created was to cover
up the gap Square Enix made after ditching Nintendo during the 64 era. Intelligent Systems were there at the wrong
place at the wrong time during Sticker Star and Color Splash and it’s really depressing
if you think about it. I mean come on man, the first game in the
series was called Mario Story in Japan for a reason. To take it even further, it was originally
a sequel to Super Mario RPG but due to complications with Square, they changed the title. The RPG system, the lovable unique characters,
and the compelling stories are all what truly defined Paper Mario. Tanabe and the rest of the new team at Intelligent
Systems became so delusional, that they don’t see that. At this point, I’ve so damn thankful AlphaDream
didn’t change Mario & Luigi with any drastic changes. Paper Jam doesn’t have that story or worlds,
but it still has the RPG gameplay, the writing, the comedy and character that Mario & Luigi
is so well known for. The way I see it, the Mario & Luigi series
is still golden and who knows whether or not their next real Mario & Luigi game will be
on the Switch or not and praise the lord they’re remaking one of their best on 3DS. Wish it was on Switch, but I hope they remake
Partners in Time for Switch. *wink wink* Intelligent Systems, on the other
hand, is gonna give us a Paper Mario game with a different system that could either
be better or worse than the last one. Speaking of the Mario & Luigi series, the
Paper Mario series had existed even before the Mario & Luigi series, and why discriminate
and believe there can only be one? I really hope that’s not being driven home
either because who thought that would be the best course of action when they function differently? This really needed to be discussed because
so many people out there do not know about this information. I was lucky one of my fans reached out and
messaged me to tell me all this and show me the money. That fan who sent me this information in that
long message who wanted to remain anonymous, thanks again so damn much. This opened my eyes and hopefully opened up
all of yours as well. I feel like this really needed to be talked
about. It’s shocking how little people knew about
this before I made this, which I’m hoping this spreads like wildfire, and how we just
blame Nintendo collectively which I unfortunately was doing. This had nothing to do with the sales of the
previous games nor the lack of interest in the series. As far as me and the fan are concerned, the
only hope left for this series is either Tanabe realizes the fanbase isn’t OK with this direction,
which is unfortunately unlikely, Ryota Kawade comes back and fixes it, or pass on the role
of producer to someone who has a better understanding of the Paper Mario legacy like Kawade. If neither of these happen, then the “Mario
Story” Paper Mario we know and love, that unique spin on the Mario universe that adds
so much diversity and lore to it, will never come back and all we have now is a papercraft
depiction of the incredibly generic and uninspiring worlds characteristic of games like New Super
Mario Bros. The fan who messaged me couldn’t have said
some of his voice better myself and really at this point, we might have to step in. Like, all I care about is reaching this out
to the whole fandom. Unrealistic, but fuck man this explains why
Paper Mario has gone down the path it did. Big and small youtubers, big and small media
outlets should see this because this counts for Paper Mario’s past, present and future
as of today. Be aware, be aware of the knowledge me and
the fans provided in this video. That way, we’ll know what to expect. Through interviews, messages, letters, sales,
reviews, etc. not petitions because those do not do shit, we got to let Tanabe and Intelligent
Systems know this. Maybe somehow get in touch with Ryota Kawade,
I hear he has social media accounts, and ask him to come back. Send fan art, OCs, fan Paper Mario games,
at least show him, Tanabe and/or Intelligent Systems we care about Paper Mario and want
it to succeed and be as charming, endearing, adventurous and fun as it used to be. We can at the very least try. This is partly why I’m not saying Nintendo’s
fully back and it’s the start. It’s too early. I’m obviously hyped for Super Mario Odyssey
and other games to come, I don’t believe we’ll get the Paper Mario game we want unless
we do something. I wanna do more than just cling onto that
slither of hope we might see Paper Mario in a real adventure, with real worlds and real
characters and a real story. I also appreciate those who took the time
to watch this video because let’s be real, it was long. I did not expect this to be that long, but
with how crucial this info is, it can happen. So please, share this and let fans know why
Paper Mario changed. Why it turned for the worse, why Miyamoto
is the way he is, why Tanabe is what he is, why Kawade left, ask Kawade to come back,
ask Tanabe to listen to his fans, tell him to not take Miyamoto’s values to heart,
let other developers, fans and yourself pitch in with your ideas, among Paper Mario fans,
and really any Mario fan. Let them know we don’t want simplicity,
we don’t want unoriginality, we want a story. We want characters. We want charming personalities. We want interesting worlds. We want new characters and new enemies. We want partners. We want an RPG battle system. We want what Paper Mario used to be. We want a real Paper Mario game. And with that, I wish you all to stay super.

100 thoughts on “Why Paper Mario Changed”

  1. I have to say that Paper Mario has really challenged my opinion on what to Mario games can do. It really perplexes me that why are these games are being put into the spin-off category rather than at the forefront. I feel bad for these hardcore fans, just like Fallout, Paper Mario is going in a different direction on a one-way street.

  2. only part i disagree on is the super paper being like the first two…
    that game was way different it didnt feel like paper mario…
    it was just the same ol jump jump mario game

  3. Y’know, I’ve played through most of TTYD (stuck at final boss), and loved it. I beat 4 levels in Sticker Star and haven’t picked it up since

  4. Yuck. I love Paper mario 64 and ttyd, but i love those games not because they are mario but because they bring personality to mario and his world. I dont care about mario i care about awesome JRPGs, if you remove what i love then it i have no interest in playing it. Great video btw.

  5. I just wish I knew how many copies Paper Mario: Color Splash has been sold since its release back in October 2016.

    VGchartz doesn't really sound like a very reliable source to me.

  6. I really hate the it's for kids so we don't have to try bullcrap excuse. In a day and age where kids games, tv shows, and movies are doing their best to provide good stories that can entertain kids Tanabe really gives off the vibe of someone from an older era who thought that.

    The thing is as your explaining these things in the video. I'm already getting ideas of how to implement the sticker and color stuff into an rpg environment. There were ways of doing it that would've worked.

  7. I don't think Paper Mario changed its probably just coincidental that 3 Paper Mario games after TYD just…I don't know how to say it but….changed just for those games? Who knows maybe they will make Mario go on a certain adventure where he should team up with others.

  8. I personally liked Sticker Star (don’t kill me please). I love the paper Mario series and enjoyed every game with its flaws and it’s perfections. But, I do believe if Sticker Star had at least a leveling system; then it would be more enjoyed/appreciated

  9. I was nine years old when Paper Mario came out, and I thoroughly enjoyed the mechanics, gameplay, and story (I think Kent C. Koopa was my biggest hurdle). I don't think dumbing down the games for younger audiences is at all necessary.

  10. sigara miyamoto should sit back when it comes to paper mario games… But honestly I have hopes for the new paper Mario on the switch what ever that may be.. They just gotta go back to their roots.

  11. ok super mario t you make a compelling case and you make me think much more then ever think before about paper mario so I'm gonna subscribe to you man thx so much and keep making such awesome content I know this is an old video but still it made me think more and more about the paper mario series as a whole and for that I am thankful.

  12. I’ve never played a Paper Mario game, but I respect the series’s legacy with the first 2 games. If Nintendo goes back to the old turn-based gameplay with a deep story and cool characters, I’ll buy the game.

  13. 21:12 im really confused and annoyed at what nintendo is implying by "simplifying the game for 7-10 year olds".

    first of all, kids arent stupid. i may not personally want kids, but i believe theyre a lot smarter than most adults take them for. dont forget, kids brains are like sponges, and very easily soak up and retain information at early ages. its not hard for a 7 year old to get the context clues of a story, especially if you reward them for completing different objectives. as a 10 year old, i had NO problems figuring out the more intricate parts of the thousand year doors combat/story/side-quests, and knew nobody else i knew had any issues, either. everything was presented in a way that every age group could understand without the use of witty sarcasm, spoonfeeding the player instructions, or characters breaking the fourth wall by explaining a joke/mechanic.

    lastly, this just comes off as culturally hypocritical. the japanese education system mandates a 6-day school week(more than most cultures which go monday-friday), but these developers dont expect these kids to understand a VERY basic menu system?? i dont buy it. sounds like damage control for turning combat into a chore*.


  14. they could've made Mario and Luigi a RPG that does crazy stuff and have big numbers like you deal 265 damage, while Paper Mario could have more strategy and you do like 8 damage max

  15. This video deserves WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more fucking views. Glad that other people feel the same way I do and want my good old Paper Mario back.

  16. This needs to spread like a virus of justice! Raise awareness of what made Paper Mario the nostalgia inducing masterpiece it was!

  17. Friendly reminder that Majora's Mask was going to be a huge game with a full week of in-game time and more temples before Miyamoto hurried it up to cash in.

  18. When I was 14 years old I played SS when it came out. I myself played the first 3 games during my tween years and I loved it. I was very hyped when I saw the announcement and beta for SS. I was not prepared for a big disappointment on Paper Mario’s big change. 🙁 Including the no partners. sigh New Paper Mario was just not my thing! And since then I’ve wondered why Paper Mario changed. When CS came out I was not impressed. Even if the game looks fun but I didn’t want to buy another “Sticker Star” game. Also I don’t have a Wii U. That is until I found your video and it just blew my mind. Now I’m learning why Paper Mario changed because I’ve been wondering about that for 6 years now. I enjoyed listening and watching your video. 🙂 The fact that you let your best friends play TTYD gave me the idea that I let my cousin play it as well. He is 12 and I want him to have a fun experience with the game (if he likes it which he possibly would). Because he likes the GameCube. I’ll be visiting him in two days.

    I support along with you and the fans for a Paper Mario game that everyone can enjoy! Because I have been wanting one just as much as you all do. ( ; ; ) Nintendo, I loved Paper Mario’s story. Please know that we DO care!

  19. I love Super Mario 3D World but watching this does explain why it's not well beloved and It always upsets me. There are original unique characters like Plessie, Sprixies and several enemies. But without that extra feel of story and character personalities, many of the characters were ignored. These characters are interested and they deserve more developement in their characteristics. I always get sick when Nintendo gets to use clones of Mario, Bowser & ESPECIALLY Peach. I wanted original characters from 3DW to ve playable because it would of improved their personality and involvement in later Mario games. People actually blamed Plessie for Yoshi's absent. It was actually Peach & Piranha Plant. They felt Yoshi was too similar thus pointless to add him. I think this is a bullcrap excuse. They could of still put Yoshi in some way. Later they make Super Mario Run which goes against what they wanted in 3DW. As much as I love 3DW only because of Plessie and other characters, I do wish it was made towards an older audience. I wish the game was rather more difficult. I always hope someday 3DW characters get more love. If only Koizumi took more involvement with 3DW, maybe it would of givin more love.
    I am also a fan of the WiiU. But I will forever be upset with the direction Nintendo took with it always looking towards the casuals. I really wanted the WiiU to sell. But the name, rushed releasing for holidays, too family/child oriented and poorly designed games(ColorSplash, StarFoxZero, AmiiboFestival), I may like the gamepad but it was too focused. All this is why WiiU sold poorly and people bash it as if it was the system's fault alone when it was really Nintendo. And no I'm not blaming Nintendo entirely just those involved with the system and games & characters I love.
    As for Paper Mario, when there was Sticker Star I gave it a chance and thought it was ok, but Color Splash came and ruined the series. It got rid of the gameplay, I really hated how the characters were developed(more personally, the Yoshis as I didn't like them being wild animals and retarded assholes) This game hurt my heart. I was also gonna give Color Splash a chance but the more I saw of it, I backed away and considered it my most hated Nintendo/WiiU game. My most favorite is 3DW. It is the 2nd best selling Wii U game, but I fear it won't get a port or sequel or bring back the Sprixie Kingdom and it's characters. There have been some characters appearing in later Mario titles(PaperJam, Odyssey, Aces & even the theme park in Universal) but I wanto to see the more major aspects from 3DW return. They don't have to make another 3DW like game in Sprixie but at least the world and characters. I honestly found more characters in 3DW more interesting than in Odyssey because of their design. I do like Bonneters & few other characters/species in Odyssey, but 3DW characters is what I want to see return because I felt Nintendo could of worked more with them.
    Back to Paper Mario(I'm all over the place) When I first saw Super Paper Mario, I thought the 2D-3D gimmick was cool. And when I played it I was introduced to many new interesting characters and there was still that Paper Mario charm I had in Paper Mario 64 & TTYD. Sticker Star was alright, but it was too empty. Color Splash was like 2x worse of what Sticker Star was. They even had mail from Parakerry & Goombella in a level in Sticker Star placed in the garbage dump. That's really messed up to treat beloved characters from more well received games like trash. At that point it was clear that though Paper Mario was changing through Super, it wasn't all ruined until Sticker happened. I really hope some point in the future Nintendo begins to listen to their core fans even more than now.

  20. Creating new mechanics and gameplay styles is not a bad idea at all, in fact, 2d Mario platformers NEED that, however, what has been done with Paper Mario is that they removed many of the things that made the game fun in the first place, such as but not limited to, breaking from stand Mario games, the RPG elements, the open world, the unique NPCs that took normal Mario enemies and characters and made them much cooler, etc. It’s fine that a game takes things in a new direction, games in this era need that badly, but they never should take away what makes the franchises fun in the first place.

  21. I did hear my wife's nephews and my son ask for Sticker Star and Color Splash, so they achieved their goal of appealing to young kids. I say, why not have two separate series going. A casual kid one and a real rpg for adults. Maybe the different series could have different aesthetics or different names so that the respective groups would know which one interest them.

  22. Super Paper Mario remains my favorite paper mario. Yeah it's named "paper mario" but it still feels more like a different spinoff. It took me MINUTES of the first chapter to accept the fact that it was a platformer and not turn based. I love both turn based games AND platformers – so super was great. Chapter 7 remains my favorite chapter in all of paper mario, and chapter 4 comes a close second. When else has mario gone to the underworld, crossed a river like the Styx in greek mythology with Charon (Charold), fought Cerberus (Underchomp), climbed out through a cloudy "heaven" world, and made it it back to life?

  23. I liked SPM even it may be different from PM64 and PMTYD… I’m sure everyone who played the game, or watched this good video, can agree SPM takes a different turn, more into the SMB style, but still in that Paper Mario style where it originate from…

    Edit: Added more into this comment…

  24. About the survey whoch supposedly said that 1 percent found the story interesting… Well, I think I know why that is. I theorize that many of SPM's pkayers were expecying a platformer, not an RPG, so never cared for ANY story.

  25. I'll pay 240 dollars for just a reskinned TTYD to be completely honest, that's how bad I want another OG paper Mario game, heck I'll even save up 300

  26. Not gonna lie, I know very little about Paper Mario's fanbase, but as an M&L fan I understand the pain of weird, bad games that feel totally different to their predecessor with far less personality. Dream Team wasn't very good in my eyes.

  27. The Devs removed anything of interest left in the Paper Mario series and replaced it with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDmPnBm49I

  28. Super Paper Mario ended up having the best and deepest story. So I guess Miyamoto didn't influence the development that much.

  29. Paper Mario>Mario 64
    And then the serie got handed to someone who produced the worst paper mario game as well as the worst metroid game. tanabe should be fired

  30. In general speaking Japanese culture does not allow competition within the team. When something gets done the entire group has to agree no individuals can stand out. Story base games compete with Zelda universe so you can't compete within the whole Nintendo team doing it. You can't compete. Oh no. Inside politics of 9Tendo. Team A in Nintendo can't compete with Team B of another Nintendo project and the Bank of Japan controls competition between Japanese companies with funding. For instance Sony vs Nintendo.

  31. Like=Sticker star
    Comment=Color splash
    First to reach 20 will be worst paper mario game.

    Also I want some likes

  32. I feel our best hope of getting the series back to how it once was is to contact Ryota, but since he hardly has any control over the series anymore, I doubt it will work.

  33. It seems to have that bad synergy issues some long standing franchises have. I do hope just like with Super Mario Party, that a previous director would return and manage a potential Switch game. It is interesting that Miyamoto wants less story (which are still Disney family friendly level which is a great level for it) but maybe Rabbids, Aces and Odyssey means the trend for storytelling is very likely. If not at least ports would be nice.

  34. I have been a huge paper mario fan even though I only played super paper mario and I just recently bought 1000 year door and loved it and it’s just disappointing to see that paper mario went downhill but I still have hope that the team at nintendo and intelligent system can get there act together and bring us a great new paper mario with story great charechters AND A BATTLE SYSTEM THATS NOT SHIT

  35. I'm 24 years old and I'd love to have a paper Mario game like the first three because the first 3 where amazing

  36. Look. I love Super Mario Odyssey as much as the next guy but there's a part of me that wishes that game was a Paper Mario game!

  37. Core of 7 to 10 year old fans?
    Uhhh yeah…. they totally don’t play fortnite or Minecraft

  38. You say for them to just push back against Miyamoto, but you have to remember that Japan is not America, they tend to be a lot more hierarchical over there. And Miyamoto not only has seniority, but also LOTS of success behind him.

  39. Partners in time needs to be remade on switch or 3ds I don’t care you can call it MARIO AND LUIGI PARTNERS IN TIME + PRINCESS SHROOBS MINIONS or something Lol

  40. Super Paper Mario was divisive but I loved it and the story and characters were great, and the settings were nice. The gameplay was interesting but not groundbreaking, though fun enough. I still swear by the older games but SPM is much better than its successors.

  41. Everyone should check out Bug Fable and this one https://www.reddit.com/r/Unity3D/comments/coi4r2/working_on_a_paper_mario_inspired_3d_pixel_art/

  42. I've been waiting for a game like Thousand Year Door and/or Super since I played them over 10 years ago. I'VE BEEN WAITING 10 YEARS. Almost as long as I still am for a better Smash Bros story! If they want to keep Mario simple, fine! But give the people what they've been begging on their knees for over 10 years! I don't care if I have to wait for a "just as good" fangame! I will have a tearful breakdown of JOY if something finally shines in the darkness!

    Super may have been questioned for it's deviation from the RPG battle system, but it was still great! It delivered something that wasn't before. The deviation from Another Rapunzel Story. Better yet, why not fight AS the former damsel in distress!

    The characters were original! They added new flavour to the recipe! Not to mention the art direction. It's a fun and cherishable kind of odd! Like something done once of which you wish to see again, but it's almost impossible to do… It's the kind of rare occurrence that almost never happens anymore. It's new AND good!

    Need I mention the music for any of the first 3? Mainly TTYD and Super for me. And orchestra with synth and chiptune done right!

    Thousand Year Door and N64 did the exact same things! Each of them were NEW and GOOD.

    The way I see things is… If you want to make things a certain way for a crowd. Do what you think works the first time around (Paper Mario N64). This is good! Now go deeper (Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door). A little change wouldn't hurt, but not too drastic (Super Paper Mario). A little iffy, but nothing's off kilter yet! (Paper Mario Sticker Star) Okay, that hurt a little. Let's try that again (Paper Mario Color Splash). Okay, now's about the time you ask for something first party developers almost never act like they require. FEEDBACK. The less feedback you listen to, the less you'll know what's wrong, if you've even come to notice that something IS wrong. The less of what's wrong you know about, then nothing will change and nothing will get better.

    Something needs to be done that's either something that hasn't been done yet, or something that we've done before, but not good enough…

    The only 3 things I can think of are starting a petition, getting Kawade to come back, or both!

  43. I loved Super Paper Mario. I know the battles and partners are way different. But Super had one of the best Mario stories, dark themes, and awesome characters.

  44. paper mario stickers star is not the best paper mario game saling he the 2nd the first is super paper mario her sales are 4.56 million copy

  45. I wonder if Nintendo will learn to listen to its fans before they decide to dust off Enola Gay and Bockscar to make them listen.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *